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Afghanistan: unfinished business? - ABC's 7.30 Report

Transcript
14/11/2002

KERRY O'BRIEN: The early goals of President Bush's war on terror were clearly stated - to destroy the Taliban Government of Afghanistan and to capture Osama bin Laden, "dead or alive".

Well, Osama remains alive and uncaptured but the Taliban have gone from Kabul and the Government of President Hamid Karzai now rules in their place.

But its power becomes rapidly weaker the further you go from the capital.

And even in Kabul, the government is dependent on the continued support of the West and especially of America.

So is it worried that America's attention will now be consumed by Iraq, leaving Afghanistan as unfinished business?

The Afghan Foreign Minister, Dr Abdullah Abdullah, is paying his first visit to Australia this week and I spoke with him in Melbourne earlier today.

Abdullah Abdullah, it was the first anniversary yesterday of Kabul's liberation.

It coincided with the latest release of what is believed to be Osama bin Laden's voice.

I'm sure the irony doesn't escape you?

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, FOREIGN MINISTER OF AFGHANISTAN: Osama bin Laden - that has been my perception right from the beginning and throughout that he was alive, unfortunately.

But from the other side, we see that his organisation has been defeated in Afghanistan in his capacity to rule that organisation, it has diminished or the networks he established have been destroyed, but still he's capable of carrying out some terrorist acts inside or outside of Afghanistan.

KERRY O'BRIEN: I see some of your officials are expressing the view that Bin Laden and the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar are alive and possibly well and living in Pakistan.

Does that not concern you because you feel the network and the power has been smashed in Afghanistan?

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: It is a cause of concern, not only the presence of Osama bin Laden and the leader of the Taliban there, the presence of other al-Qa'ida leaders in Pakistan, as well as some of them hiding inside Afghanistan.

This is a cause of concern and this will be a security risk for Afghanistan.

That is why the Coalition forces and the ISA forces are helping the people of Afghanistan to overcome the challenges.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Given that Bin Laden was America's public enemy number one and Mullah Omar was a wanted man, what does the continuing freedom say about the real success of the campaign against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: The success of the Coalition forces, US forces as well as the Coalition in the efforts of the Afghan people in that regard shouldn't be judged by the presence of Osama bin Laden being alive or dead, but much more has been achieved in the campaign against terror.

We shouldn't forget that over a year ago, 80 per cent of Afghanistan was under the control of Osama and Mullah Omar and they used to be enjoying freedom of action, to establish their networks, to execute their plans worldwide.

That capacity has diminished to a large extent.

KERRY O'BRIEN: So then you'd agree with the chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff who said he feels the military campaign is losing momentum, that it's time to switch priorities to reconstruction, more to reconstruction?

Do you think it's safe to reduce US and Coalition military effort in Afghanistan?

Has the Taliban and al-Qa'ida threat really been effectively removed?

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: First of all, there's no doubt that this phase of operation is different from the earlier phases, which was more of a conventional war against terrorist groups which had based inside Afghanistan and they used to fight back.

This is more or less a sort of manhunt operation and it requires different tactics and different resources, different type of resources, but there has to be a balance between the two.

From one side, military operations and security measures, from the other side, reconstruction efforts, which in itself changes the environment for terrorists and radicals in Afghanistan and in the region.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Are you at all worried about the implications for Afghanistan if America declares war on Iraq?

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: As long as the focus remains on Afghanistan to the extent it is needed and required, that will not affect Afghanistan negatively.

What is needed is to maintain that focus in military and security as well as in the reconstruction and support for the political process in Afghanistan.

If that leads to the shift of attention or focus from Afghanistan fully or distraction of the international community from the campaign against terror, that will be a cause of concern for the people of Afghanistan.

KERRY O'BRIEN: You must be a little bit worried at least, of that prospect happening.

That a war with Iraq, which would be quite a significant engagement by America, presumably followed by some years of occupation and reform there, would presumably be a very significant drain on US resources.

That has to have implications, one would think, for an ongoing sustained effort with Afghanistan as well?

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: Being in the United States just a few weeks ago, we were assured by that administration in the highest level, as well as the Congress and Senate leadership, that the need for the continuation of the focus on Afghanistan is recognised and that will continue in their support for it.

KERRY O'BRIEN: I know you've been made aware of the running issue here in Australia revolving around claims that perhaps hundreds of people claiming to be Afghan refugees who have come here via the people-smuggler routes, are really Pakistanis, that some of them might be a security risk here.

Does that surprise you?

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: It shouldn't come as a surprise for me because I was aware of the same cases or the same type of examples in different other places and different other countries.

While being in the resistance against the Taliban and Al Qaeda for so many years, I have already anticipated some other issues which came as a surprise for the outside world.

For example, the presence of the people from South-East Asia in the camps of Taliban and Al Qaeda which they were undergoing training and they were also involved in the fightings against the people of Afghanistan, which was like sort of live practice for them.

We knew that they will be creating problems in their homeland or back home.

This also didn't come as a surprise for us.

KERRY O'BRIEN: With regard to genuine Afghan refugees here in Australia, there is a mounting pressure for many of those to go back to Afghanistan.

Do you see no problems about that happening on a quite large scale?

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: We are working, currently, with the Government of Australia.

For example, 420 people of these asylum seekers, which are now in Nauru, we are working with the government here in providing documentations to take them back home.

But it's important that this return should be voluntary.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Abdullah Abdullah, thank you very much for talking with us.

DR ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: You're welcome.